Last month, the Supreme Court handed down two seemingly contradictory rulings: one allowing Trump to fire the independent commissioners on the FTC, and the other protecting the independence of the Federal Reserve from executive whim. To make sense of these two cases, we’re bringing back one of those fired FTC commissioners (and Organized Money MVP) Alvaro Bedoya, host of The Fair Fight with Alvaro & Max.

Together, Matt Stoller, David Dayen, and Alvaro break down the cases, what effects they’ll have on executive policy, and question the elephant in the room: Does regulatory independence even matter in an era of hyper-partisanship? It’s a sobering conversation, but we still find room for a little hope, as states start expanding their justice departments in order to pick up the federal government’s slack.

Listen via Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

David Dayen is the executive editor of The American Prospect. He is the author of Monopolized: Life in the Age of Corporate Power and Chain of Title: How Three Ordinary Americans Uncovered Wall Street’s Great Foreclosure Fraud. He co-hosts the podcast Organized Money with Matt Stoller. He can be reached on Signal at ddayen.90.

Matt Stoller is research director at the American Economic Liberties Project and the author of Goliath: The 100-Year War Between Monopoly Power and Democracy.