Whether or not you buy into the argument that AI will kill all humanity, it’s inarguable that there’s suddenly a rush to find a regulatory framework for AI in D.C. with the support of the AI companies themselves. But until recently, Anthropic and OpenAI were full steam ahead—what gives? What if this is actually about something much more mundane? What are they really afraid of?

On today’s episode, we sit down with Organized Money alum David Seligman of Towards Justice and Colorado State Rep. Javier Mabrey to find out. David Dayen and Mabrey have been at the front lines of state-level regulation of AI, which descended into a morass of gubernatorial interference and lobbying muscle, all surrounding one very important, but also very normal, issue: legal liability. We get into the history of Colorado’s AI legislation, the move to repeal and replace it, and the way Big Tech muscled in at the last moment to get what they wanted, which all boiled down to not wanting to be liable for their potentially destructive products.

Listen via Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

David Dayen is the executive editor of The American Prospect. He is the author of Monopolized: Life in the Age of Corporate Power and Chain of Title: How Three Ordinary Americans Uncovered Wall Street’s Great Foreclosure Fraud. He co-hosts the podcast Organized Money with Matt Stoller. He can be reached on Signal at ddayen.90.

Matt Stoller is research director at the American Economic Liberties Project and the author of Goliath: The 100-Year War Between Monopoly Power and Democracy.